THE PRESIDENT.-
To vote "Yes" means to vote again in favour of Amendment No. 1, which says:
"The Assembly decides to ratify the
credentials of the delegation of the Russian Federation, but to deprive the
members of the delegation of their voting rights in the Assembly and its bodies
in accordance with Rule 8.5.c of the Rules of Procedure."
That is what you will be voting for if you vote
"Yes". If you vote "No", you are voting against that. Voting "No" in effect is
non-ratification.
Mr GJELLEROD (Denmark).-
You said, Mr President, that a simple majority is needed, but are we not voting
on a report? Are we not voting on a conclusion from Mrs Ojuland’s report,
as amended? Therefore, is a simple majority or a two-thirds majority needed?
THE PRESIDENT.-
My understanding and advice is that it requires a simple majority.
Mr FRUNDA (Romania).-
You are right, Mr President, because under Rule 8.5 the Assembly accepted
the amendment of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. In this case
we can vote on two alternatives:
the credentials with the suspension of the right of vote in
plenary and in committee or no credentials.
There is no third way.
THE PRESIDENT.- I
am very grateful to you. That was my interpretation - that the Assembly
votes for the credentials with the suspension of voting or if it votes against
it is voting against ratification.
The voting is now open.
The conclusions,
as amended, are adopted.
I thank members for the patience they have shown during this
long and difficult debate.
Втора съвързана тема
Как Русия беше приета в Съвета на Европа
По време на гласуването в ПАСЕ за приемането на Руската Федерация за член на Съвета на Европа - 25 януари
1996г. също беше оказан натиск върху депутатите, да гласуват положително.
По това време аз бях заместващ-член в делегацията и нямах възможност даотида на сесията с делегацията.
Не бях командирован от Председателя на Народното
събрание Благовест Сендов.
А и нямах право на глас в присъствието на
титулярите.
В уикенда преди сесията, обаче в един курорт в планината Шварцвалд,
която се намира срещу Страсбург - отсреща през река Рейн, се проведе общ
семинар за изработване на позиция по искането на Русия за членство, в
който участваха групите на Европейската Народна Партия и на
Европейските демократи - т.е. на европейската десница.
Като Вицепрезидент (тогава) на групата на Европейските демократи в ПАСЕ, разходите ми за участието в семинара бяха поети от групата.
Генерален секретар на групата тогава беше г-жа Барбара Норд, а
Президент Халгрим Берг от Норвегия.
Аз си позволих да остана в Страсбург
и в понеделник, за собствена сметка. Отседнах в най-евтиния възможен
хотел - до гарата.
Нямах средства за повече. Така можах да присъствам на началото на сесията.
Общото решение на двете групи беше, че Русия не е изпълнила минималните
изисквания за членство в Съвета на Европа и не би могла да бъде приета в
този момент.
Реши се, че ще се направят редица конкретни препоръки, които когато се изпълнят, въпросът ще бъде подложен на разглеждане.
Вечерта преди откриването на сесията в неделя обаче, делегациите на
Германия, Франция и Великобритания са били подложени на силен натиск от
премиерите на своите страни Хелмут Кол и Джон Мейджър (а в случая с Франция - от Президента на
Републиката Франсоа Митеран) да гласуват "за" по приемането на Русия за член на Съвета на Европа още на тази
сесия.
Така при гласуването редица от членовете на двете групи при поименното гласуване на становището на ПАСЕ гласуваха "за".
При гласуването на решението на ПАСЕ за Русия,
по искане на естонската депутатка, а по-късно Министър на
външните работи на Естония от либералната група, Кристина Оюланд и група
депутати се проведе поименно гласуване със ставане прав и заявяване на вота.
Покойният лорд Джефри Финсберг, консерватор, Вицепрезидент и бивш
Президент на ПАСЕ, тогава при извикването на името му за
гласуване станал и дори отговорил на руски език - "Да!".
Резултатите от това гласуване не можеха да се намерят в интернет до днес.
Това е така, защото през 1996г. вече макар вече да съществуваше интернет, повечето от институциите нямаха още свои сайтове.
Ето защо, публикувам на моя блог, гласуването по приемането на Русия в Съвета на Европа.
При гласуването българската делегация тогава нямаше единно становище.
Филип
Боков и Иван Генов (БСП), Елена Поптодорова(тогава - ЕЛ) и Яшо Минков (БББ) са
гласували "за", г-н Васил Гоцев(СДС) и г-н Юнал Лютфи(ДПС) са се въздържали, а
г-жа Надежда Михайлова, която тогава присъстваше на сесията, не е взела
участие в гласуването, защото като заместващ-член не е имала право да
гласува в присъствието на титуляра.
(Тогава СДС имаше
трима представители в ПАСЕ - Васил Гоцев - титуляр и двама заместващи
членове Надежда Михайлова и Лъчезар Тошев. Делегацията на Народното
събрание в ПАСЕ се състои от 12 членове - 6 титуляри и 6 заместващи
членове.)
От 6 възможни гласа от България, за приемането на Русия в Съвета на Европа са били дадени 4.
СДС и ДПС не са подкрепили приемането на Русия в Съвета на Европа.
(По време на членството ми в групата
на консерваторите (EDG) 1992-1997г. аз бях неин Вицепрезидент от
1994г. (От юни 1997г. станах член на групата на ЕНП, а СДС пое курс към
членство в ЕНП, което стана факт през 1998г.).
Ето протокола от гласуването тук:
AAPV7.96 AS
(1996) PV 7
1403-25/1/96-10-E
1996
SESSION
(First
Part)
SEVENTH
SITTING
Thursday
25 January, 1996 at 3 pm
MINUTES
OF PROCEEDINGS
Mr van
der Linden, Vice-President of the Assembly, took the Chair at 3.03
pm.
1. MINUTES
The
minutes of proceedings of the previous sitting not having been
distributed, their adoption was deferred.
2. ATTENDANCE
REGISTER
The names
of the Representatives and Substitutes who signed the attendance
register are given in the Appendix.
3. RUSSIA'S
REQUEST FOR MEMBERSHIP OF THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE
The
debate was resumed.
Speakers:
MM Masseret, Gricius, Lord Finsberg, MM Büchel, Bergquist.
Mrs
Lentz-Cornette, Vice-President of the Assembly, took the Chair
in
place of Mr Van der Linden.
Speakers:
MM Szalay, Moeller (on a point of order), Lipkowski, Caputo,
Marmazov, Zhirinovsky, Thoresen, About, Guenov, Bühler, Andulatipor,
Jurgens, Mrs Jäätteenmäki, MM Pozzo, Briane, Dionisi, Bauer,
Elo.
Mrs
Fischer, President of the Assembly, took the Chair
in
place of Mrs Lentz-Cornette.
Speaker:
Mr Árnason.
The list
of speakers was interrupted.
Mr
Seitlinger, Chairman of the Committee on Relations with European
Non-Member Countries, Mr Bindig, Rapporteur for an opinion of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights and Mr Muehlemann,
Rapporteur, and Mr Bársony, Chairman of the Political Affairs
Committee, replied to the debate.
The
debate was closed.
Mr
Columberg moved to refer the report back to the Political Affairs
Committee under Rule 33 of the Rules of Procedure.
Speaker:
Lord Finsberg.
The
motion was defeated.
The
Assembly considered the draft opinion contained in Doc. 7443.
The
President announced that the amendments would be taken in the
following order:
19, 17,
32, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (and sub-amendment), 20, 7, 8, 9, 14, 21, 22, 26,
33, 1, 16, 27, 23, 10, 24, 25, 28, 34, 29, 11, 12 (and
sub-amendment), 13, 31, 30, 18.
The
President announced that Amendment No. 15 had been withdrawn.
Its terms were the same as those of the motion for an order to be
moved following the vote on the draft opinion.
An
amendment (No. 19) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 3, to replace the words "conflict in
Chechnya" by the words "colonial war in Chechnya".
Speakers:
MM Martínez, Muehlemann (Rapporteur of the Political Affairs
Committee).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
An
amendment (No. 17) was proposed by Mr Speroni, in the draft
opinion, at the end of paragraph 3, to add a new sentence worded as
follows:
"However,
due to the obstinate refusal of the Russian Government to recognise
the right of the Chechnyan people to self-determination, this search
for a solution has so far failed to bring the armed conflict to an
end;".
Speakers:
MM Galanos, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 32) was proposed by Mrs Err, in the draft
opinion, after paragraph 3, to insert a new paragraph worded as
follows:
"The
Assembly has followed the events in December 1995 in Gudermes and the
recent events in Pervomayskoye with deep concern. It firmly condemns
the taking of hostages as an act of terrorism and a flagrant
violation of human rights, which no cause can justify. At the same
time, it considers that the Russian authorities did not show
sufficient concern for the safety of the hostages. The apparent
indiscriminate use of force cost the lives of many innocent people
and violated international humanitarian law. The Chechnyan conflict
cannot be resolved by the use of force. There will be no peace in
the region, nor an end to terrorist attacks, without a political
solution, based on negotiation and on European democratic values".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 2) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, in
paragraph 6, to delete the words "able and willing" and to
insert the words:
"clearly
willing and will be able in the near future".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 3) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, in
paragraph 6.v, before the word "functioning" to insert the
word "role".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
An
amendment (No. 4) was, with the leave of the Assembly,
withdrawn.
Another
amendment (No. 5) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, at
the end of paragraph 6.ix, to add the following words:
"in
particular, the practically inhuman conditions in many pre-trial
detention centres will be ameliorated without delay;".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 6) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion,
after paragraph 6.ix, to add a new sub-paragraph worded as follows:
"the
responsibility for the prison administration and the execution of
judgments will be transferred to the Ministry of Justice before the
end of 1998;".
A
sub-amendment was proposed by Mr Bloetzer, to leave out the words
"before the end of 1998".
Lord
Finsberg proposed an oral sub-amendment in place of the
sub-amendment, to leave out the words "before the end of 1998"
and replace them with the words "as soon as possible".
Speakers:
MM Muehlemann (Rapporteur), Bársony, Novák (on points of order).
The oral
sub-amendment proposed by Lord Finsberg was agreed to.
Speakers:
Mrs Ojuland, Mr Galanos.
The
amendment, as amended, was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 20) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 6, after sub-paragraph x, to insert a new
sub-paragraph, worded as follows:
"the
Russian Federation will assist persons formerly deported from the
occupied Baltic States or those belonging to the descendants of
deportees, to return home according to special repatriation and
compensation programmes which must be worked out;".
Speakers:
MM Muehlemann (Rapporteur), Blaauw (on a point of order).
The
Assembly voted by sitting and standing.
The
amendment was agreed to.
Speakers:
MM Špaček, Speroni (on points of order).
Another
amendment (No. 7) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, in
paragraph 7, to delete the words "and control".
Speakers:
Lord Finsberg, Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 8) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, at
the end of paragraph 8, to add the following new sentence:
"In
the context of this joint programme, particular attention should also
be paid to support for and the strengthening of non-governmental
organisations in the field of human rights and to the establishment
of a civil society."
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Speaker:
Sir Andrew Bowden (on a point of order).
Another
amendment (No. 9) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, in
paragraph 9.ii, to delete the words "in the meantime" and
to insert the words:
"with
effect from the day of accession".
Speakers:
MM Špaček, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Amendment
No. 14 fell.
Another
amendment (No. 21) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph vii, to leave out the words
"to seek".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 22) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph vii, at the end, to insert the
words "rejecting resolutely any forms of threat to use force
against its neighbours".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 26) was proposed by Mrs Veidemann, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, after sub-paragraph viii, at the end, to
insert the words "abiding by the existing international
treaties".
Speakers:
MM Galanos, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 33) was proposed by Mr Speroni, in the draft
opinion, after paragraph 9.viii, to insert a new sub-paragraph worded
as follows:
"to
settle internal disputes, honouring the principle of peoples' right
to self-determination".
Speakers:
Lord Finsberg, Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 1) was proposed by Mr Diacov, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9.ix, after the words "to ratify" to
insert the following words:
"in
a period of six months after the accession of Russia to the Council
of Europe".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Speaker:
Lord Finsberg (on a point of order).
Another
amendment (No. 16) was proposed by Mr Atkinson, on behalf of the
Committee on Relations with European Non-Member Countries, in the
draft opinion, after paragraph 9.x, to add a new sub-paragraph worded
as follows:
"to
continue to negotiate with the religious communities on the return of
property confiscated since the 1917 Revolution".
Speakers:
MM Schwimmer, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 27) was proposed by Mr Van der Maelen, in the
draft opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph xi, to delete the word
"archives".
Speakers:
Sir Russell Johnston, Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 23) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph xi, at the end, to insert the
words "in respective areas including Caucasus".
Speakers:
MM Galanos, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 10) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion,
after paragraph 9.xi, to insert a new paragraph worded as follows:
"to
return without delay the property of the churches".
Mr
Bársony proposed an oral sub-amendment, to leave out the word
"churches" and insert the words "religious
institutions".
Speakers:
MM Galanos, Gricius, Muehlemann (Rapporteur), Kovakas.
The
sub-amendment was agreed to.
The
amendment, as amended, was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 24) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, after sub-paragraph xi, to insert a new
sub-paragraph, worded as follows:
"to
denounce as wrong the concept of two different species of foreign
countries, treating some of them as a zone of special influence
called 'near abroad'".
Speakers:
MM Solonari, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 25) was proposed by Mr Landsbergis, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph xii, to delete the words "to
seek".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 28) was proposed by Mr Van der Maelen, in the
draft opinion, at the end of paragraph 9, sub-paragraph xii., to add
the following words:
",
in particular the archives transferred to Moscow in 1945;".
Speaker:
Sir Russell Johnston, Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 34) was proposed by Mr Severin, in the draft
opinion, after paragraph 9.xii, to insert a new sub-paragraph worded
as follows:
"to
implement the necessary measures in order to facilitate the
repatriation of all those inhabitants of the territories occupied as
a result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, who were deported after
1940, and to reimburse them for the damages suffered in connection
with the said deportation;".
Speaker:
Mr Bársony (Chairman of the Political Affairs Committee).
The
amendment was not agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 29) was proposed by Mr Valkeniers, in the draft
opinion, in paragraph 9, sub-paragraph xiii, to insert the following
words after the words "state secrets":
"and
to facilitate the consultation of archives kept in the Russian
Federation".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 11) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, at
the end of paragraph 9.xv, to add the following words:
"in
particular, the right of the Federal Security Service (FSB) to
possess and run pre-trial detention centres should be withdrawn.".
Speaker:
Mr Prokes.
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 12) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion,
after paragraph 9.xvi, to insert a new sub-paragraph worded as
follows:
"to
reduce, if not eliminate, incidents of ill-treatment and deaths in
the armed forces;".
A
sub-amendment was proposed by Mr Bloetzer, at the end, to add the
words:
"outside
military conflicts".
Speakers:
MM Speroni, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
sub-amendment was agreed to.
Speakers:
MM Kovalos, Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment, as amended, was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 13) was proposed by Mr Bindig, on behalf of the
Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, in the draft opinion, at
the end of paragraph 9.xvii, to add the following words:
"amongst
other legislation, presidential decree no. 1226 should be revised
without delay;".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 31) was proposed by Mrs Aguiar, in the draft
opinion, at the end of paragraph 9, to insert a new sub-paragraph
worded as follows:
"to
strictly respect the provisions of international humanitarian law,
including in cases of armed conflict on its territory".
Speakers:
MM Bársony (Chairman), Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 30) was proposed by Mrs Aguiar, in the draft
opinion, at the end of paragraph 9, to insert a new sub-paragraph
worded as follows:
"to
co-operate in good faith with international humanitarian
organisations and to enable them to carry on their activities on its
territory in conformity with their mandate".
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (Rapporteur).
The
amendment was agreed to.
An oral
amendment (oral Amendment A) was proposed by Mr Schwimmer, in the
draft opinion, after paragraph 9.xx, to add a new sub-paragraph as
follows:
"xxi. to
confirm the commitments indicated in paragraphs 6 and 9 in a written
form signed by the Russian authorities.".
Speakers:
MM Bársony, Schwimmer (on points of order).
Objection
being taken, this was not permitted.
Speaker:
Mr Muehlemann (on a point of order).
Objection
being taken to another oral amendment (oral Amendment B), in the
draft opinion, in paragraph 10, to leave out the words: "indicated
above: i. invite the Russian Federation" and to insert the
words:
"indicated
above, and as soon as a process to peaceful solution in Chechnya is
achieved:
i. invite
the Russian Federation in due course",
it
was not permitted.
Speaker:
Mr Bársony (on a point of order).
Another
oral amendment (oral Amendment C) was proposed by Mr Berg, in the
draft opinion, in paragraph 10, to replace sub-paragraph iii with the
following words:
"guarantee
that the Organisation's means and capabilities, in particular those
of the Assembly and of the Human Rights Institutions, are increased
to meet the consequences of these decisions".
Speakers:
MM Schieder, Bársony, Schwimmer (on points of order).
The
amendment was agreed to.
Another
amendment (No. 18) was proposed by Mr Schieder, in the draft
opinion, at the end of paragraph 10.iii, to add the following words:
"and
refrain from using the Russian Federation's accession to reduce the
contributions of states which are already members.".
The
amendment was agreed to.
At the
request of Mrs Ojuland and at least nine other members, the Assembly
proceeded to vote by roll-call on the draft opinion.
Votes
cast: 214
In
favour: 164
Against: 35
Abstentions:15
The draft
opinion, as amended, was accordingly adopted (Opinion
No. 193).
The
President congratulated the Russian delegation.
Speaker:
Mr Lukin.
Mr
Pahor, Vice-President of the Assembly, took the Chair in place of Mrs
Fischer
The
Assembly considered the motion for an order on the creation of an Ad
hoc Committee on Chechnya (Doc. 7475).
The
President informed the Assembly that a small change should be made to
the printed version of the motion for an order. In the last line,
the words "to the Assembly" should be replaced by the word
"back".
The
motion was agreed to (Order
No. 516).
4. DATE,
TIME AND ORDERS OF THE DAY OF THE NEXT SITTING
The next
public sitting was fixed for Friday 26 January at 11 am with the
following orders of the day:
1. Economic
situation in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine
- Presentation
of the report from the Committee on Economic Affairs and Development
on the economic situation in Belarus, Russia and Ukraine (Doc. 7453)
by Mr Blaauw and Mr Novák, Rapporteurs.
- Debate
and vote
on the draft resolution contained in Doc. 7453.
2. Animal
welfare and transport of livestock in Europe
- Presentation
of the report from the Committee on Agriculture and Rural Development
on animal welfare and transport of livestock in Europe (Doc. 7427)
by Mr Michels, Rapporteur.
- Debate
and votes
on the draft recommendation contained in Doc. 7427 and amendments.
3. Appointment
of members of the Standing Committee
The
sitting was closed at 7.46 pm.
ПЪРВАТА РУСКА ДЕЛЕГАЦИЯ В ПАСЕ
ОРИГИНАЛНИЯТ СПИСЪК,
ТАКА КАКТО Е ИЗПРАТЕН НА Г-ЖА ЛЕНИ ФИШЕР
